MINUTES OF A DEFINITION OF NEEDS, RESOURCES AND REVENUES
COMMITTEE MEETING OF THE
GOVERNOR’S TRANSPORTATION VISION 21 TASK FORCE
9:00 a.m., Thursday, September 9, 1999
Sheraton El Conquistador, Agave II & III
10000 Oracle Road
Oro Valley, Arizona
The Governor’s Transportation Vision 21 Task Force met in official session for a Definition of Needs, Resources and Revenues Committee Meeting at 9:00 a.m., Thursday, September 9, 1999 with chairperson Barbara Ralston presiding. Other members in attendance were Steve Basila, Jim Delton, John Hauskins, Joe Herrick, Gary Knight, Valerie Manning, John Mawhinney, Lela Steffey, Frank Thorwald, Steve Wheeler, Dick Wright, Martin L. Shultz (ex-officio member) and Dr. Sharon Megdal (ex-officio member). Also present were John Bivens, John Carlson, Matt Carpenter, Alan Maguire, John McGee, Harry Reed, Mary Lynn Tischer and Stephanie Bondeson.
Pledge of Allegiance and Welcome
Ms. Barbara Ralston called the meeting to order and all present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance.
Acceptance of 7/08/99 Minutes
A motion was made to approve the July 8, 1999 minutes as written. The motion was seconded and carried unanimously.
Discussion of Committee Issues
1. What processes can be utilized and how to ensure the identified critical long-range transportation needs (vs. wants) for all modes are included in state, regional or local plans in a manner that ensures equity between rural, urban, regional, and tribal areas, as well as the state as a whole?
Ms. Valerie Manning stated that the ADOT board needs to create consistent criteria in order to have consistency throughout the state.
Mr. John Mawhinney stated he would like to see projects prioritized over the next twenty years and cites maintenance as a high priority issue.
Mr. Steve Wheeler suggested a MAG-type organization be created that would have authority over the entire state to ensure statewide uniformity and equitability.
Mr. Frank Thorwald stated that growth and technology need to be considered. He also questioned the impact of NAFTA and Growing Smarter.
Mr. Steve Basila stated that needs have to be addressed locally with the state stepping in to make it seamless.
Mr. Alan Maguire summarized the main points for question 1.
2. How can we ensure that costs identified for the long-range transportation plan have been properly estimated and have been developed on a comparable basis across all jurisdictions and all modes?
Mr. Thorwald suggested pulling out both the similar and dissimilar criteria used by the different jurisdictions and modes and determine why there are differences.
Mr. Mawhinney stated that the legislature could determine the criteria local jurisdictions use, and base the criteria on supporting ADOT’s method of prioritization and criteria forming.
Mr. John Carlson suggested looking at the federal government to tighten up the guidelines the MPOs and COGs follow.
Special appearance by Governor Jane Dee Hull.
Mr. Joe Herrick asked Mr. Carlson if he believes that having the federal government provide criteria would encourage bigger matching funds. Mr. Carlson stated he believed it would have a trickle-down effect.
Mr. John Bivens expressed his disagreement with Mr. Carlson. He stated that the state needs to provide leadership on this issue rather than rely on the federal government.
Mr. Thorwald commented that the state does not have the political clout necessary to work with the federal government and feels that the criteria should be provided at the state level.
Mr. Basila suggested the involvement of engineering, designing and contracting communities to assist in the process of estimating costs properly.
Mr. Thorwald stated he also feels the federal government is not always willing to embrace and adopt new technology which may be more cost efficient.
Mr. Maguire summarized the main points for question 2.
Ms. Lela Steffey stated it is possible for the legislature to set up standards and then allow communities to enhance beyond that standard if they want.
Ms. Mary Lynn Tischer recommended there be technical input into the standards.
Mr. Thorwald pointed out that some roads don’t meet AASHTO standards or even the standards in place at the time the roads were built.
Mr. Carlson stated that all levels need to agree to use the same needs assessment process and that it may be necessary to purchase more accurate equipment.
Mr. Maguire summarized the main points for question 2.
3. What sources of revenue should fund the transportation system? What are the equitable, perhaps innovative ways, to get the required funding for the realization of Arizona’s statewide multimodal transportation system vision for the 21st Century?
Mr. Thorwald stated many different ways will have to be considered. He suggested looking at the state budget process. He mentioned allowing funds to be borrowed against the money received from the federal government as an alternative.
Ms. Steffey stated that people will support user fees. She suggested making sure that transportation taxes are being used for transportation purposes. She also suggested dedicating a portion of existing sales tax to transportation.
Mr. Wheeler suggested creating a philosophy of funding that clarifies the board’s principles of revenue raising.
Mr. Bivens expressed his agreement that money has not been used effectively. He stated that there is no stable source of funds for transit and cautions relying on a fuel tax when alternative fuels are coming and may effect that revenue source.
Mr. John Hauskins stated that fuel tax has to be indexed but that it cannot be the only source of funding. He also stated that a minor increase in fuel tax won’t be successful. He explained that the change will have to be significant and possibly phased in over a period of time.
Ms. Manning stated her belief that elected officials should be allowed to make decisions related to funding.
Mr. Basila expressed his agreement that user charges will be accepted by the public, but believes it needs to be broader based. It is a community issue and user charges are too selfish. Mr. Basila cautioned the members not to box themselves in by only looking at what they can sell to the public.
Mr. Thorwald stated his agreement with Mr. Bivens as to alternate vehicles and their effect on funding if relying on fuel taxes. He also questioned members on how privatization can be used as a source of revenues.
Mr. Knight suggested a budget be created and the effect of each revenue alternative on that budget be determined.
Mr. Herrick stated that once the task force is over, the task force members, at their district levels, need to actively support the legislature on this issue.
Mr. Maguire summarized the main points for question 3.
Questions 4 and 5 were skipped.
6. How can we ensure that the available funds for the transportation system are properly allocated among modes and the governmental entities responsible for developing, operating and maintaining the system?
Mr. Thorwald questioned whether modes of transportation that are high in cost and only service a small population are the most appropriate modes of transportation for that area.
Mr. Mawhinney stated that local jurisdictions often get more political pressure then they should. He suggested that local jurisdictions be forced to meet minimum requirements before they would receive funding. He suggested maintenance of effort be provided, as well as an audit provision.
Mr. Thorwald suggested MPOs and COGs be structured similarly and not be allowed to lobby.
Ms. Manning stated that the decision making process needs to include more than just government. She suggested including business interests in the process to ensure customer needs are being met.
Mr. Basila stated that ADOT will have to oversee local governments to ensure the process and methodology are the same throughout, but that local governments need to be part of the process.
Mr. Maguire summarized the main points for question 6.
Presentation and Discussion on Costs Associated with Maintenance and Operation of the State Highway System
Mr. Dick Wright, Deputy Director, Arizona Department of Transportation made a brief presentation on costs associated with maintenance and operation of the state highway system. Copies of the presentation were provided for the committee members, and a copy of the presentation is incorporated into the minutes as an attachment.
Mr. Herrick asked what percentage of Arizona roads are asphalt versus cement. Mr. Jim Delton stated that there are not more than 500 miles of PCCV concrete, most of which is located in Phoenix.
Ms. Ralston questioned the continual replacement of railings. Mr. Wright stated that there has been a 60-65% success rate in getting insurance companies to pay for damage caused by vehicles.
Presentation and Discussion on Pavement Preservation
Mr. Delton, Pavement Management Engineer, Arizona Department of Transportation, conducted a presentation on pavement preservation. A copy of the presentation is incorporated into the minutes as an attachment.
Call to the Public
There were no comments from the public.
Closing comments and adjournment.
The meeting adjourned at 11:29 a.m.
BARBARA RALSTON, Chairperson
